What is your thoughts on definition of a BIG football club?

Arsenal striker Thierry Henry was "fuming" today after having a late goal disallowed for handball in their 1-0 Champions League loss at CSKA Moscow.

Thierry Henry said this was because he did not play for "a big club".

So if Arsenal are not seen as a BIG club, then which clubs are, and WHY are they big clubs?

Difficult to define a big club.
If you say average attendance, then is Newcastle bigger than Arsenal - don't think so.
Is Man Utd bigger than Chelsea - probably, so can't be size of crowds.

Is it who is richest? What teams are signing the big players? That would be Chelsea again, so can't be right!

Is it history? That would bring Liverpool into equation, but also Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa so occassional European success can't really be a fair judgement either.

In the context of what Henry said I think he was meaning that Arsenal still arent recognised as one of Europes "big clubs" along with the likes of AC Milan, Real Madrid etc etc

News Article Today - Biggest British Teams

Reigning champions Chelsea may have won the 2005/06 English Premier League title but Manchester United remains Britain’s most popular football club, according to Roy Morgan International Single Source findings.

Manchester United, described recently by American owner Malcolm Glazier as a “franchise”, is supported by 4.209 million Brits. FA Cup Finalist Liverpool is the second most popular British Club with 3.133 million British supporters with Champions League Finalist Arsenal (2.652m) rounding out the top three. Despite their on-field success Chelsea must settle for fourth on the table with 1.485 million supporters.

Glasgow Rangers, with 1.43 million supporters, are the fifth most popular team in Britain followed immediately by their old firm rivals and Scottish Champions Glasgow Celtic who are supported by 1.406 million Brits.

From the English Championship League Leeds United (938,000) is the best supported football team from outside the English and Scottish Premier Leagues and is the ninth most popular team overall.

Liverpool will take on the 12th most popular British team, West Ham (691,000 supporters), in this year’s FA Cup Final to be played on May 13th. The Hammers are the fourth most popular London team behind Arsenal (2.652m), Chelsea (1.406m) and Tottenham (1.240m — seventh overall).

Also in the Top 20 are England’s UEFA Cup Finalist Middlesbrough in 16th position (452,000 supporters) and Scotland’s Champions League qualifiers Heart of Midlothian in 18th place (398,000 supporters). Welsh team Cardiff are in 22nd position with 322,000 supporters. Of the 20 most popular teams in the UK, eleven currently play in the English Premier League, three play in the Scottish Premier League and six in the English Championship League.

Position Britain’s 20 Most Popular Teams Number of Supporters
1 Manchester United 4,209,000
2 Liverpool 3,133,000
3 Arsenal 2,652,000
4 Chelsea 1,485,000
5 Rangers 1,430,000

I don't know about some of this guys figures, think this report was more likely compiled by someone like Captain Morgan.

Combination of factors
- wealth
- spending power
- stadium size
- history

I think in terms of defining big clubs its impossible. Where would you start? The History of a club, that makes Nottingham Forest 1 of the biggest english clubs while these days they are stuck in League 1. Spending Power? Chelsea can outspend any team going so from a spending power point of view chelsea are the only big team in the world. Stadium size? Newcastle have the 2nd(i think??) biggest ground in the EPL and have average attendences over 50,000, so in terms of Stadium size are bigger than Chelsea. The defination of big teams therefore is impossible and all fans will always argue for 1 reason or another that there side is bigger than there rivals. To say 1 team is bigger than another is in alot of cases absolute nonsense(unless your referring to Chelsea and say Elgin City) as things can change at the blow of a whistle(Look at the downfall of leeds, from semis of champs league to relegation battle in the english championship)

Every club in the land starts every season to win trophies. Therefore success at trophy wins means a club becomes 'big'. Occassional fluke results are not that important - it is sustained trophy win success that counts.

Trophy wins build a club history, and in turn attracts more fans and more spending power.

Dominoe effect really, but it needs to starts with trophy wins normally.

Forest were never a big club even when winning one League, two League Cups and two European Cups.

Are Newcastle a BIG club?

if so, WHY ?

Wondered how long it would take for you to pose this question

Bringing up an old thread that never really reached any significant conclusion about defining a "big" club showed how subjective this is.

Re-reading this thread its clear (to me) that we are talking about two distinct things here;

a) SUCCESSFUL clubs: any club whether its big or not can achieve success (e.g. Wimbledon winning the FA Cup, Forest winning the European Cup twice). Winning something doesn't make you a BIG club. However, SUCCESS can be measured - the record books show that these clubs are successful. HOWEVER, continued success in my view will lead to becoming a big club as that company brand attains worldwide growth.

BIG clubs: Stature, support, history, money (turnover), brand name... this is a more subjective subject. WHAT is a big club? I'd suggest brand name!

Before we can say whether Newcastle are a big club define the measure you wish to apply and then we can discuss. In my view, whichever criteria you wish to apply I'm confident that it will be easy to argue that the Toon are a big club.

Thinking globally if you were asked to name a big club, what would you answer? Are they in this list? If not, why not and how can they think of themselves as big if they're not...

Rank (Prior year) Club Income (In millions)
1 (1) Manchester United €259.0
2 (4) Real Madrid 236.0
3 (3) AC Milan 222.3
4 (10) Chelsea 217.0
5 (2) Juventus 215.0
6 (7) Arsenal 173.6
7 (13) Barcelona 169.2
8 (6) Internazionale 166.5
9 (5) Bayern Munich 166.3
10 (8) Liverpool 139.5
11 (9) Newcastle United 136.6
12 (11) AS Roma 108.8
13 (18) Celtic 104.2
14 (16) Tottenham Hotspur 100.1
15 (15) SS Lazio 99.4
16 (n/a) Manchester City 93.5
17 (14) Schalke 04 91.4
18 (n/a) Olympique Marseille 88.0
19 (n/a) Rangers 86.2
20 (n/a) Aston Villa 84.4
Source: Deloitte Football Money League (03/04 season)

Did anyone think of a "BIG" club that isn't listed? Name them and we'll discuss whether they can be classed as such

Aston Villa?
Top 20 BIG club worldwide?
You are having a laugh!

They'd struggle to make a top 20 ENGLISH list. Some Championship sides would consider themselves equal on Villa current status.

Just cos Premiership hand out a load of TV money, this income cannot be balanced in terms of BIG club. Criteria has to be more balanced than this.

Replica shirt sales must be a factor. Worldwide, the fans will decide themselves what is a BIG club and want to buy that teams top to wear.

As for Newcastle, BIG clubs YES. Succesful club, NO!

Shocked how poor Newcastle are doing under Keegan this time.

I'm not! Whoever came in was going to find it hard - especially with the initial run of games that we had.

Keegan's 1st season in charge at the Toon last time wasn't good - although many people forget this. We actually escaped relegation to the old THIRD division by beating Leicester on the last day of the season! However, he went on to build a fantastic brand of exciting, attacking football that I don't think we'll see again at the Toon (even with KK back at the healm).

I gave my season ticket up a few seasons back - it was beginning to spoil my whole weekend. Overpaid prima donna footballers who didn't play with passion and didn't look hurt if they lost - not like the fans (its their club, don't care who 'owns' it). I wasn't prepared to fund that directly - especially with the buffoon Fletcher in charge. I think Mike Ashley seems genuine enough - but I can't see him throwing money away.

My son has just started going again with his mates (crumbs they grow up quick) and I don't intend to start again. Having watched them get stuffed by a very average Aston Villa on sky today can't see me ever wanting to go back - clueless!!!

I'd love to think KK could bring some success to Newcastle, I can't see it though. Indeed I think it will only be a matter of time before the shadow hanging over any Toon manager (Shearer) gets given his chance (and fails) before a whole new regime is put in place... and then (if the fans remain patient) we may see the changes required.

Big clubs attract players, so lets see which big name players choose to sign for which clubs, and that will give a broad outline of which clubs are considered 'big' at this moment in time.