...or before half the season has elapsed...
...or before the trade window has closed...

Therefore..
The recent 'Expansion Team' announcement and it's public 'roll up,roll up, buy 'em now before they get binned!' acclamation, can not be seen as an enhancement to SESL.

The previous utilization of this rule was by a Manager who had accepted an offer, from the Commish, of a team in SESL and after the trade window had closed had expressed a wish to continue with the team/club offered, but to 'start afresh' with the 'expansion team' rule invoked for the following season.

I have absolutely no problem with any manager using the existing rules to better their team in anyway they see fit. I for one have tested the boundaries of the rule book in the past and so, can not throw stones in this or any 'rule testing' instance.

Further, I would suggest that any 'testing of the boundaries' in SESL is a good thing as it brings us all back round to posting and blogging about it!

The recent 'Expansion Team' announcement and it's timing, brings questions to it's availability and the finer details surrounding it. Don't you think?

I have to say I'm concerned by the rule as it stands. STI have 20 CP, 27 TP and 2600k. They will get 1000k easily and so can buy 45 CP and will get 40 TP.

Ok, the team won't be great to start with, but with two 0/5, two 0/10, a 1/16 and a 1/20 they're just another team that should head straight to division one.

I think DUM did the same (expansion) but they did it after a manager change, after the trade window had closed and not with loads of resources left. And they haven't done too badly.

Unless this rule is changed we will see many 2nd and 3rd division sides saving all their CP and TP next season, taking the drop and starting again with 70 CP and 80 TP.

I personally don't see why existing managers should get a reset button. Couple of seasons sensible budgeting with no pressure in the lowest division should be enough to turn any team around. They can always train up and sell a few youngsters if they want to get a bit of a head start. This should be reserved for new managers only.

I don't like the rule at all.

You are supposed to budget responsibly and manage a team with fiscal responsibly, as well as building a team to compete.

Giving up and selling off star players for peanuts not only is a cop out (no offence Rene) but it is unfair on the other teams in the league, who didn't buy a 1/24 FW for half price.

The expansion rule, was created in MSWL for when the league expanded was it not?
And it is used to build teams, like in a new league, SFLSL. Not to hit the reset button.

I don't like the rule at all, but if it must exist and teams can use it, it should be massively overhauled.

Playing Devils Advocate for sake of discussion - in 20 seasons of SESL, how many teams have choosen expansion? DUM mentioned, and STI thinkin of it.

48 teams x 20 seasons = 960. Twice expansion seeked?

Lets say its happened 10 times - still hardly "many 2nd and 3rd division sides"

If rules needs tweaked, then simply limit it so 50CP and 50TP is max a team can start with, and same for a bank top level 1,000k after CP purchase.

Doubt many teams will steamroller thru the divisions, and if expansion is such an easy option, why do so few teams go this route currently?

While it may be easy for big teams heading for promotion or league titles to dismiss the struggling teams,
DUU make great points.

Clearly STI could have bought 3 or 4 apprentices and sold 2 or 3 of them on this season. That would have set this seasons STI roster up well for pushing on from there and heading for promotion next season perhaps.

When Rene finally bought the age 0 apprentice, ofcourse it was too late to meet trade window deadline this season.
That is bad planning.
If he learns from it, then OK.

I am OK with expansion rule, although agree some limits could be introduced if it were to become a popular route. That is not the case, as very few teams opt for expansion, and I think even bottom dogs BRE have just been talked out of the expansion route. That team cannot get a win at all this season, but I know a few mangers are supporting Rudi, including Dan @ BUC and others. The basis of a team is there at BRE.

To end on a bombshell: GM, INV & DEV all not too happy with expansion (per Forum posts above). Each of these managers have moved on to another team in recent seasons. Had these 3 managers all been now sitting around foot of Div 3 with their original teams, would they maybe be more sympathetic to the plight of the struggling manager?

Maybe STI and BRE (and few others) log in to SESL each Saturday night expecting to lose, but hoping for that glimmer of hope and a rare win. That may be tough month after month - heck, even season after season.
Expansion route gives struggling managers hope - not instant promotion or else dozens more teams would use that route.

Speaking for myself:

I left a team that had just won Division One and Cecil Cup the season before for a team that everybody expected to struggle as they were 4th bottom of the whole league in T17 and had finished low enough to get a 1/16 Bosman. Everybody agreed it would be a challenge. But I inherited a good side (INV) and wanted to work myself up from the bottom.

I'll admit I didn't know the rules were as they are until Dumbarton took advantage. I have nothing against René for doing what he did - in fact I suggested it last season. But even if I did I wouldn't have done it as the challenge in getting Deveronvale where they are was enough for me.

I'm sure that when the rule was devised no one expected a team to start with 65 CP and 65 TP. STI are already the weakest team by far in SESL and have next to no chance in winning any games. Their T11 beats just 2 other teams' T17 and they have no reason to use any more.

The main problem here is the stockpiling of this seasons resources & cash and adding that to the so called fresh start. Technically Rene isn't doing anything out-with the rules but like Steve says I'm sure the plan was not for teams to start with 65 each of each resource and 4000k. With that sort of head start added to the revamped squad STI may well easily rise through the divisions.

Teams may not have followed this route before but seeing these sort of benefits may just open the floodgates.

Giving managers an optional chance to start again is preferable to managers jumping ship to a better team, leaving behind a team for a newbie to come in and take over - then maybe get disillutioned with and quit.

Setting resource limits and maximum cash for re-starting expansion teams is a good idea in future.

I'd just like to point out that EVERY team I have ever Managed in SESL is currently in Division 1 and not languishing around the bottom of Division 3

As I said above, I'm all for Rene utilizing the rules for the betterment of his team and anyway, the expansion rule is at the Commish's discretion. The rule should simply not be available until a substantial portion of the season has elapsed and any stockpiling via trades is no longer an option.

A few season ago in real life Scottish Football, Clyde FC had something ridiculous, about 3 or 4 players on their books just weeks before the season started. They placed an ad in the local newspaper for players to turn up at Broadwood for trials and eventually knocked Celtic out of the Scottish Cup with this band of unwanted or untried wannabe's. A real life 'reset button' in action! A few years on and their pure honkin' again!

But Rene will not have any excuses with the start he's going have for season 21... time will tell...

I know that I haven't been very involved lately, so I'm a latecomer to this discussion. I can't find the expansion provision in the rules. I'm sure it's there, but I haven't the time to keep digging.

My humble opinion is that allowing existing managers to bail out and take an expansion team is a cop out. It's unrealistic. It undermines the integrity of the game. I don't really know who is exercising the option, so my comments aren't directed at anyone.

Moreover, does a team get to keep its resources in addition to those given to an expansion team? Let me check the date on these posts. It must be an April Fool's joke.

I know I should give more comments than just those above, but if you all want press money prior to the auction, I have to keep it short. Essentially, managing your resources is part of the game. Taking a team from worst to first is a challenge--embrace it with no shortcuts. Taking an expansion team eliminates an existing team (and all of its history) from the ongoing record books. If those expansion teams get a fast track advantage to the top, then it's an insult to every manager who sticks with their own team and battles through resource management in the spirit of the game.

That's enough from me. Meow.

I left PT just after relegation to take on a new challenge.
The team was left with plenty of quality players, with a good age mix.
What is more they were left with enough resources to challenge in the second division, which is where I took them over as well, and as you remember Stew, you were there too.

That PT are towards the bottom of Div 2 this season is not an indictment on how I left the team.

As for the current Expansion rule, I don't think it is right at all. And yes managing a team that is really bad isn't much fun, I've experienced it last season with Inverness who just couldn't score goals and got relegated. But that is part of the challenge.

We went down, we rebuilt, I did a sequence of trades to completely change the team tactics and make up of the team. To be handed a new team is not a great challenge, to rebuild what you have is a real challenge, and far more rewarding.

I was really annoyed to see Steve sign Mark Roberts, as he was the player that my old PT team was built around, I would have liked to bring him back under my wing.

I understand the discussion.
This how I see it:

Ever since I took over I have been fighting with the team I got it. Very much old players and lousy players. I tried changing it around. Before the season I alreay thought about asking Mark going for the expansion team, but didn't because it's not in me to quit when it's not going good. But during the season I said to myself, this is going nowhere, why not go for expansion, so I asked Mark if that was possible. So I use a option that is in the rules. That's not my fault guys.

Yes I now have pretty CP/TP and enough cash, but that was not my intention.
I asked if it was a good idea to go for a OTF increase, he said yes, it was a good thought. I finally did not because of the investment of 16CP with a loss off 4 end of season. I will invest next season
But to make it fair for other teams. I won't sell anymore players before the transfer deadline. So other teams won't benefit from my players and I won't get richer.
Sorry for the guys that made trade offers, but it the fairest thing to do.

So, then, is it correct that a team keeps all of its CP and TP and Cash when the expansion starts? That's not right on any level.

...and can someone direct me to the rule? I can't seem to find it. Thx

The rule is in [B.9.0] on page 15 of the downloadable version.

However it doesn't appear to have been added to the Olmec Wiki version.