Going on from something Gabarelli mentioned in another thread (all be it jokingly) - I reckon some sort of finders fee (maybe CP/TP or cash) would be a good idea for any current manager that introduces a new manager.

Obviously this would down to the commish's if its meritted or not i.e. the manager that introduces the new manager would be his 'assistant' manager for a few weeks/months till the new manager is used to the rules & format of the SESL.

Obviously commish will be able to judge whether or not the manager is helping the newbie as he's not likely to be getting emails from new managers asking questions.

Just think it would be a nice incentive/reward for any managers who introduce new players for the time/effort they've put in - also cuts commish's workload as he does not have to go hunting for managers and helping them out if existing managers can help him out.

It would also mean less managers getting sacked as current managers know the commitment and time input required in SESL therefore their unlikely to recommend people that are not committed to the game.

And lastly if more people were introducing friends to the game I think it can only improve the SESL as it could help improve banter/craic/manager inter-activity.

So anyone else in agreement. And what sort of reward would be fitting?

I agree, after all the hassle I had to put up with from ELG after introducing him to the game, some kind of reward is hard-earned.....

PS, after intro-ing NAI boss and giving him some tips, have you noticed he has won 4 out of 4....., says it all really doesn't it.

I am in favour of a Finders Fee.

Need to set a few conditions though:-


new manager must submit 2 press releases in first month

new manager must post on forum (so I can see IP address and confirm an existing manager is not trying to run 2 teams)

new manager must not be already in too many other similar games


assuming there are no NMRs in first month and newbie appears reliable, then I could award a Finders Fee of 3 CP perhaps,
or a +2 OTF team boost to the current managers team who brings in an active new manager?

Has this ever happened before (I mean one manager trying to manage 2 teams)?

I didn't know that home PCs had a permenant IP addresses, I thought it was given randomly by the internet service on each time you get online.

I hope this does not apply to existing managers as well

But seriously, why should it matter whether a new potential manager plays on other leagues as well?
Many of the dedicated managers have clubs on several leagues. In my opinion it contributes towards more interaction between the managers.

As to the idea of rewarding a manager for recruiting a solid new member to the league. It's a good idea.

People who play in many leagues will always have their favourite league. So some of their teams will get more input than others. Same reason a real life managers cannot really manage a club side and an international side effectively.

One reason SESL is so successful is that many managers play ONLY in SESL so they are totally committed to give all their time to their SESL team.

The point Commish was maybe making was that you cannot really earn 3CP by bringing in a manager that is in other mswl-clone leagues and requires almost no training with the rules.

If you look at these other leagues it is often the same manager names over and over again in all the games. The participation level must be pretty low in these games, I would think.

What CEL and ELG have done, I think, is bring in people to SESL who have never played PBeM games before. That must be for the benefit of SESL, I would think.

As INV says, think it is for SESL's benefits brining in fresh managers to PBeM games.

Means they may have a different outlook and offer suggestions we may not have though of already......

Totally agree with INV on his points above.

Don't have any gripes with managers having several teams in other leagues - but as he points out (and going back to my original point) - a manager that has already played PBeM games will require less help.

To bring in a manager who is new to the whole concept can take a bit of time to help them out - therefore it would be a nice incentive it the clauses stated in commish's post were met & the manager helping out the new guy was to get a reward (ie 3CP). It surely would help freshen up SESL and could only be beneficial to the league.

I see what you mean. The bonus is for helping out a newbie manager and not for just getting a new manager to the league. That makes sense.

Personally, I'm against a finders fee. What it comes down to is that Mark runs the game for us all for free, why do we need incentives if we have the time to dedicate to helping new managers. I personally think the SESL is a great game, and I'd introduce a new manager is I thought they would also enjoy the game. If you introduce a manager to the game you already have an intrinsic benefit of having a friendly manager. I know I trade alot with MON, Steve is a manager I brought to the SESL, and I offer help where I could when he started because he was a friend. Certainly time and effort to help a new manager, but how much time and effort does Mark put in to the game? If a manager has time to help, but needs and incentive to offer it then I am disappointed considering Mark has run the SESL for 13 seasons!

My concern is that of quality. Its not just a question of more managers, but good managers. My fear is a flood of time wasters that my be hassled to write press or seem committed for the first month and then fizzle out when their 'Guardian' has fulfilled his 'responsibility'. Ultimately the question is, if other managers know people that would enjoy the game, why haven't they introduced them already? Alternatively, does an incentive suddenly transform someone who didn't seem interested before, suddenly into a committed manager?

Someone said on this forum (it may have been HAM_boss Vincent?) that they could be a shortage of CP in sesl due to Press Points now.

So I'd think an initiative to bring a handful of more CP into the SESL would be welcomed by Vincent?

I think Commish should have power to remove the 3CP finders fees should newbie become unreliable during their first season though.

Sorry - but I can't agree with what your saying Vince.

As I said before - I would think someone that is an existing manager introducing someone to the game is fully aware of the time/effort required to be an SESL manager - so I'd doubt very much this is likely to result in an influx of managers who are lazy/unreliable & will not be to the benefit of SESL.

Surely Vince, if commish has too look for & appoint managers himself with no previous experience there is more of a risk of them being unreliable?

As INV pointed out - I would expect commish to be introducing some sort of rule that the manager can have the 3CP taken from him if the manager he introduced proved to be unreliable within their first season. Why not even withold the 3CP until the end of the new managers first full season? And also the rule should be that the manager can only introduce one new manager per season therefore maximum reward in any season would be 3CP.

Commish rewards managers who assist him in SESL with CP/TP ie for writing articles for the website, updating team histories etc - all of which are helping introduce more manager interactive and improve SESL overall.

So why do you not believe introducing a new manager to the fold is worthy of reward too? It is also helping to improve interaction between managers and encouraging more managers to take an active part in the game. It also helps to reduce the commish workload (similar to what the other examples above do).

I cannot understand why Vince would be against introducing more CP to the game especially when he highlighted before his concerns over a possible shortage in future.

And consider this - if more managers are introducing new managers who are reliable and taking an active part in the game - the liklihood of this CP award being given out in future will decrease as I'd expect less managers leaving/being sacked as they will be committed to the game.

I feel you’ve misunderstood what I’ve said. Firstly, I NEVER said there’s a shortage of CP due to Press Points, although I do think there is a shortage of CP, and I first mentioned this in the Press Points forum, so this could be where you’re confused. I think CP as finder’s fee will have very little effect in this problem. I think that to introduce rules where Mark has to monitor new managers and their sponsors will simple add work and headaches.

I notice neither the Elgin nor the Inverness manager answered my main points; if other managers know people that would enjoy the game, why haven't they introduced them already? Alternatively, does an incentive suddenly transform someone who didn't seem interested before, suddenly into a committed manager?

I’m basing my premise on three assumptions. First, the SESL is enjoyable. Secondly, if you have friends you think will enjoy the game and have the time, you would also want them to join in the SESL (see previous point for why). Finally, you like your friend and so will help him? These I feel are sufficient motivation to introduce and help new managers.

I’m not against introducing more CP into the game, quite the opposite, but against this is where you’ve either misunderstood or ignored what I’ve said. TP/CP is awarded in the game by Mark, and rightly so, but do so to encourage participation in the game. Again you’ve misunderstood what I’ve said.

For me, as I said before, it’s about motivation and quality. As far as motivation goes, lets assume for arguments sake that the SESL is enjoyable and you will make time to help a friend (you want him/her to enjoy the game after all). So what this leaves is that the recruit in question either will not enjoy the game or cannot commit the time to playing. The introduction of CP will not change this fact.

If the reasons I’ve listed are not enough to encourage introducing a friend, and yet the introduction of a finders fee does, then I see a problem straight away. You’ve both talked about how the finders fee could be implemented and the benefits of introducing CP into the system, but you’ve not looked at the important question, ‘why’?

I’ve already said that there are sufficient motivations to introduce new managers. I presume then that the ‘finders fee’ is to increase recruitment. Now we have a question mark over the reliability of the new manager, and the motivation of the sponsor bringing in the new manager. As I said, I think there are sufficient reason for introducing new managers, the ‘extra’ managers brought in above this due to a ‘finders fee’ will be of questionable quality.

You said if the manager doesn’t hold up to scratch then they simply don’t get the CP, but you’ve not looked at the possible damage bad managers can have on the SESL. Albion and Montrose have been successful teams in the SESL, but a succession of bad managers have decimated their squads in the past within a season!

My objection is not rewarding with CP, but the principle of a finders fee which I believe, far from helping the SESL, will in fact damage it. The trick, I believe is better managers, not more managers.

I think somebody doesn't have any friends they can introduce.....

I'd rather avoid 'cheap' shots to a serious discussion...