To All Managers,

As the curtain is ready to fall on season 16 of SESL, its time to stop for a short breather and examine what improvements we can make in future?

Season 16 has been the best season yet, in my own opinion.

But what do you, the managers, think? I want to hear your opinions.

Fire in and post them here. Criticism welcomed!

Mark

OK, I'll go first. Hope this is not a trick question by Commish to boot out the sesl trouble makers! :-)

Good?
- website with online orders is first class
- immediate trade confirmation
- blog to aid interaction

Bad?
- cecil cup dragged on too long to hold interest
- mid week games risk more NMR's?

Ugly?
- Robin Dewar's blog photo was a shocker! :-)

I agree that it's been the best yet (of my three and a half seasons here) and that's due to the interactions via the blog, pre- and post-match comments but also the auctions and trades. There's lots of other nice additions too like match previews, history tables and accounts.

Oh, and some nice rivalries building up.

I disgaree that midweek games risk more NMRs as most managers have teams in before Saturday anyway. There's no reason why you can't submit three games and then edit after the Saturday games if needed.

Agree that Cecil Cup dragged but there was a 2 week gap mid-season in previous seasons anyway to allow Commish to update ageing. I think the SESL Cup will drag for those knocked out as well. Maybe a slight restructuring of the fixtures so that everyone has at least one league game even when knocked out the cup(s) with the SESL Cup final the last game after the last league game.

I realise this might be a problem for Commish - in MSWL the equivalent of the Cecil Cup is played out before the league starts and the SESL Cup doesn't start until after the league has finished.

I think the pre/post match comments money might be too much. It favours those managers who are always on the site and can find something witty to say. And a possible 50k every week is too much (in my opinion). I'd happily do away with this altogether.

The press on the blog is plenty. And the pre-season comments are ok as managers have plenty of time to find something to say.

This is my first full season on SESL, I came in at this time last year.
So I don't know what previous seasons have been like, but I have loved playing in this league. I have bored the ears off some of friends talking about how Partick are doing.

The blog has been great fun, I have not used the forum that much.
And the pre and post match comments have been an absolute treat, to the point when PSFA started up I was sad that I couldn't put in comments before the match, and set conditionals for comments during the match.

I don't think the mid games were a bad thing, I enjoyed having another having another deadline to keep me perked. Middle of the work day, thinking of going on lunch, wait lets see how my team did first.

The online orders are amazing, I don't think I would be so engaged if it was not for these, and the automated trade system is top drawer.

The only issue I've had was the drag in the middle of the season, around the CECIL cup and aging. But one break isn't that much of a problem I suppose.

The Good:
New web based format


The bad:
The blog


In MSWL and TheMax the blog is actually quite good natured - for some reason in SESL I got the impression and certainly felt on occasion it was quite bad tempered. Some folk trying to be "in character" by slating other managers. All the while forgetting that the written word and especially the immediacy of the written word on the internet can mean that people see red and start flame wars. (Trust me I've been on the internet for almost 20 years and seen it on and off in many forms Usenet, mail groups, web sites, forums, blogs, wikis blah blah, same story different technologies), it happens, but I'm here for fun, if I wanted aggro I'd still be posting to Usenet news groups.

Sometimes people either need to make it clear they mean to poke fun (thats what a smiley is for - hint hint), or they need to lighten up and count to ten before posting.

I'm here for a diversion from work at lunchtimes and a bit of a larf. I dont want/need aggravation caused by what seems like ill tempered exchanges and I seriously felt like leaving SESl at one point mid-season.

Its a Friday and if i say more I'll need a few more beers

GMcD.

I have definately enjoyed the web version over the email version this season, even though BUC got relegated! . As a relatively new manager (I started mid-season 15) all the elements of the web-based version inc. orders, trades, accounts, stats, previews etc definately help you get to grips with the intricacies of SESL & hopefully make better managers out of us!!. I certainly think mid-week games are a good idea and I didn't feel the season dragged at all even though we were knocked out the CECIL cup early on. I definately agree that the BLOG can very negative sometimes and will inevitably put people off posting there...personally I really enjoy the pre-post match comments & I use this as the main forum to have a bit of banter. Nothing more to add really except that I'm already looking forward to next season! ..... oh just 1 grumble..would it be possible for the previews to be scaled so that they would print on 1 side of A4 nice & neat like by default?

I agree with the common concensus that the new web style is an improvement - I particularly liked;

1) the fact that trades are instant once both sides post their agreement.
2) certainty of deadlines / games reported at definitive times
3) use of midweek dates for cup games
4) new format for auctions used this season
5) In match comments / post match comments and previews
(although I think the rewards made may need slight tweeking (something Steve has already mentioned) -- maybe just spot bonus payments for particurlarly funny comments (I don't think there was a single award made for some in game comments - and I'm sure that if anyone had pointed any of them out to Mr Tucker he would have rewarded them amply)

On the flip side I prefered the old press reporting system. I thought some of the stuff on the BLOG at times was a bit too near the knuckle at times - so much so that I think I used this facility less than I may have. In fact I'd endorse everything Graham alluded to in his post. After saying that I suppose there is a fine line beween good banter creating the friendly rivalries that can add to the game.

A lot of great comments on this thread guys.
Keep them coming.

I am keen to know about schedule timing, and indeed timing of deadlines.
Is noon UK time too early for our American friends?

One thing about Blog is that a manager cannot edit his post, therefore things maybe said in heat of moment cannot be retracted. Count to 10 before posting on Blog seems fair advice.

The move to online has been great and this has been a very enjoyable season.

I enjoy the mid-week games and I believe it helps the continuity adn provides more mid-week interest.

The blog is good but does get out of hand sometimes. Must admit I’ve stayed clear of it for the most part. Personally I prefer the old way of doing press. You could be more inventive with picture and so on in Word and also you got to see the award next to the article and seeing how your awards were mounting for mid and end of season, provided more of an incentive. I also enjoyed reading through the press eMail on a Friday morning with my cup of coffee!

The instant trade is really good, I’m sure many more participate in this now.

Lineups are much easier to do and I like the review orders page. I obviously don’t have the stats but am willing to bet theres less NMRs received now?

Overall, well worth the move, wouldn’t change much apart from the press.

I agree with Bishop Bloke in the main.
NMR seems rare. Only MON today, for example.

There was talk before of a 'print' option of key data to help those managers who like to plan squads offline and on paper.

Moving back to email press could be a step backwards however.
Unless the reports are bulky every week with, perhaps, 20+ press releases.

I am one of those managers that thinks the SESL has had one of its best seasons ever. Lots of activity, involvement, etc.
My favourite things about the SESl
a/ the web orders -
b/ lots more interaction amongst managers(good or bad)
c/ playoff setup
d/ some good rivalrys have developed
e/ organization of the SESL is excellent
f/ as a Canadian player, I have no problem with the timing of things.

My not-so-favourite things about the SESL
a/ some of the blog bantering has truly crossed that proverbial line. I am spending much less time going to the blog.
b/ the money for press ramblings should be reviewed. It really is getting very chintzy for the effort put forth.
c/ a few managers have become very negative.

Len - NAI

I would say this has been the best season for SESL and I've been playing since the beginning so I should know ;-)

My favourite development has been the pre and post match comments. Personally I find I rarely have time to write screens of press but it's no problem (and good fun) to write a line or two about a few games and I enjoy reading the comments and watching them build up over the week.

Well done Mark and Al.

Just an idea about future press...

...couldn't we use just this forum?

i.e. set up a folder entitled "SESL Press" and create a new thread for each weeks edition. The press administrator could maybe lock the weekly thread after listing the awards.

This means those who don't want bulky email attachments would be happy.
Your could post more than 1 news article. (although I think there should still be a maximum amount for the weekly award)
There'd still be a weekly press deadline to hit but it could be posted at anytime before the deadline.
It would be in keeping with basing the game online rather than email based.
As the press releases would be posted "live" it would allow a possible response if engaging in some pre-match mind games with weekends opponents.
It would allow press to be 'seperated' from the blog and therefore allow for a little more thought and possible quick edits afterwards if after a rethink its not what you wanted to say.

Press Releases on forum? Great idea Les.

Set up a folder entitled "SESL Press" and create a new thread for each weeks edition. Those with 'dial-up' access can load up press thread, then go offline and scroll thru the page of press. Or print it out if it goes over several pages and read with your morning coffee on Friday!

Forum press means 1 small graphic per team per week allowed too maybe.

Downside is only a dozen managers appear to frequent this forum, so would everyone read it?

Would Blog die on its feet? Or revert to being occassional 1 line comments that most internet blogs are anyway?

I have to add my weight to the "this has been SESL's best ever season" lobby and not just because my team topped Div. 1. This has been my fourth SESL season and I feel that each season I have got more and more into "it", and I think the new online set up introduced this season has been a success.

The new online stuff like the line up creater, the transaction page and the game previews have been well used and well liked. The way it all happens instantly now, I really like.

From my point of view I have enjoyed good natured ribbing and humoured blog posts, but I can see why other managers feel that some posts went a bit too far. Overall though I think the blog has also been good for SESL as it seems to have attracted posts, comments and a wider response from managers than what used to take part on just the forum. The pre and post match comments options is also a good feature.

Just a wee point, would it be too much to ask to have the blog time/date as GMT?